A quick reminder: SPOILERS for anyboy who has yet to see the conclusion to Children of Earth - you have been warned!!
Man, Day Five has provoked some strong reactions. On the one hand there's the corner of fandom who feel utterly, utterly angry about Russell T Davies' finale, feeling that it pushed Jack Harkness into a direction they didn't like. They feel like their favourite show didn't quite end the way it should have, and I can understand that...
...But, sorry, I'm firmly positioned in the second camp - those fans that watched Day Five and thought it was a bloody good piece of drama. Flawed, certainly, but it was still incredibly powerful and moving. The fact that so many of you are pissed that Jack just runs away at the end demonstrates that. They say the best dramas invite response, and for the first time this show offered that, and more.
Somehow, I don't quite think this is the end of Torchwood (desite how things might first appear). Jack's departure prepares the character for his role in the finale to David Tennant's era onboard Doctor Who, and there after he's free to return to Cardiff (or wherever...). Sure, John Barrowman won't be available to film the series until March 2010 at the earliest, due to prior commitments, but that's not going to stop him!
Then there's the fantastic ratings. 6 million people. Read back over that. No, you're not dreaming - 6 million! The BBC would be foolish not to look at those numbers and order some more episodes, with or without Harkness. Plus, it's an ideal opportunity to bring in new characters/actors - actors who might also be on the cheap side to hire! Well, in the middle of a recession every penny matters.
Rumours are abound that the show could be moving across the pond to the USA, or at least an American remake is bound our way. Russell T Davies is the latest in a long line of production personnel to move over to LA (Julie Gardner has gone, too) - and based off of the show's success over there, I wouldn't rule out the Americans wanting a piece of the Torchwood pie.
Online fandom continues to thrive, also. Forums are going into meltdown over events seen in CoE, and brand spanking new sites are being set up by the people who watched this latest series, fell in love with the series and decided to label themselves fans. They own the show now, as do you, and online they'll never let its flame go out.
TORCHWOOD.tv will continue to offer up the latest happenings within the Torchwood community, with a whole host of writers onboard to ensure it stays as one of the top online resources available. Tomorrow sees the launch of our third annual Reader Awards, which everybody is entitled to vote in, and they'll be posted up in time for my own personal farewell at the end of the month. Yep, after three years reporting, it's almost my time to bid fandom adieu as I move onto ventures new. But the site, like the show it follows, lives on.
Why don't you post your reactions to CoE in the comments section below, and while you're at it take a stab at predicting what you think the future holds for the Torchwood brand. Please, remember, the show hasn't been cancelled by anybody; so try to remain positive!
Torchwood: Children of Earth hits DVD/Blu-Ray here in the UK on Monday 13th July.
Why don't you follow this blog for all the latest, up-to-date Torchwood news?
55 comments:
From what I've seen, the negative reactions haven't been because of Jack running away, but the death of Ianto. Their relationship and his character meant a lot to a lot of people and took a central role in the drama this series after being a part of their character interactions for most of last season.
I personally was crushed by Ianto's death and it has really colored how I feel about the show as a whole, especially since I feel like they had finally started to really become a couple and deal with couple issues and then they kill Ianto off. I didn't feel the same way about Tosh and Owen, but with the love triangle between Gwen, Jack, and Ianto coloring their characters so much, and with Jack and Gwen being the two central characters, it is difficult for me to see how it could be the show that most of us have come to love.
I don't really have predictions for any future series. I would hate to see it co-opted by American tv or Hollywood. I can only hope that Ianto is somehow brought back or revived. I can accept that Jack would be absent for some time, but if it's just Gwen or if they start with a whole new cast of characters, it won't be Torchwood for me.
I really hope the US doesn't get it's nasty claws on the show. What Showtime did with RTD's 'QAF' was horrible!
It's true about the two positions people are taking over CoE. To be perfectly honest I'm probably part of both sides. On one hand it was the best piece of drama I've seen in a long while, and it was pulled off brilliantly. On the other I hate the course the characters have taken, killing off Ianto and Jacks darker nature (in particular his actions) and after seeing these character developments I'm not even sure if I would continue watching a new season of Torchwood.
But we'll see, only time will tell, but I do also hope the US doesn't do Torchwood, they've already wrecked many shows done by the UK, we don't need another one ruined!
I'm kinda on both sides but more unhappy with how everything worked out than loving the intensity of the series.
Last night I was slightly hopeful but now I think the show is over for good! :( It was 10 times better than Doctor Who.
I wish I had not seen what happened to the little boy. It was horrible and I can't "unsee" it, no matter how hard I try.
Well, I just watched it and I'm a sobbing mess. All through part 5 I wanted...waited for Ianto to miraculously come back to life. I thought there was no way they could kill him off, as the chemistry between he and Jack was brilliant! But no. It wasn't to be. Now? With Jack running off? I know his character needs to be on DW for a bit, but episode 5 felt far too much like an end, not just a 'to be continued...whenever'.
And, even though I live across the pond in America, I have to agree with the other commenters. Do NOT let Hollywood get their claws into yet another British television show! It will not be pretty and it will end badly.
I also kinda have both reactions. I was a very well made drama, but I cannot forgive him for killing Ianto. He was the best character in that series and there was so more room for him to grow, much more than Gwen.
He wanted to end the series, or even just this 'era' of Torchwood history killing Gwen would have served that option a lot better.
Yeah, America will ruin this show, you really think they would allow a relationship like Jack and Ianto's to exists, they'd probably erease all memory of it.
My one consultation is that this last episode with the last and final prof for how important Ianto was for Jack. First of all, he came back to life without a scream, he didn't want to come back to life but he had no other choice. He run away for 6 month and he keeps on running and he was willing to kill his grandchild and alien his daughter, a clear lost of hope in my eyes.
It it's not the end of torchwood, I just hope we will get a new generation of sort - meaning no Gwen. I wouldn't mind PC Andy though....
I'm hurt and angry for a variety of reasons. Yes they include the Death of Ianto Jones, and the Deconstruction of Captain Jack, but more than that it's how people can call a series that clearly, when you strip away all the extra explosions, death and angst, was just a rehash of the first season episode "Small Worlds" with a rehash of the nightmare vision of the future from "The Twilight Streets" tacked on to the end for good measure good storytelling. It was bad fanfic from beginning to end. All it had going for it for "drama" was the extra explosions death and angst, and they were filler in a lather-rinse-repeat badfic.
I'm not getting why people are so upset about Ianto. Jack is a human, flawed version of the Doctor. That's the way Russel intended it.
At the end of CoE Jack was confronted with the reality that whoever he comes in contact with suffers in some way. Every companion the Doctor has met has also suffered in some way. And instead of deal with it, Jack has decided to run and change his identity again. While the Doctor has had how many hundred of years to learn to deal with the pain, Jack doesn't have that experience yet.
To me it made sense for people to suffer and die around Jack. And for those that hate Gwen, she suffered the most in the end. She now has to move on with no help or security. Sort of like Sarah Jane Smith.
Although I can understand people's view about disliking the ending of the show (death of steven, Ianto, jack's darkness and him running away), I cannot disagree with them more about these things making it 'less' torchwood.
For those fans that have religiously followed both torchwood and Cpt.Jack's tv debut from the start (as I have) than the ending was the absolute best way for the series to end. It returned back to its darker roots, which is what Torchwood has always been about, and what Jack has always been about- do you not remember the Jack of series 1 when he was practically cold at points? And although I cried my eyes out solidly for both day 4 and 5 eps, It made the drama even better that Ianto died, but I am devastated, and I would rather they leave it at COE than make an american version, or one without cpt.Jack, and it would never quite be the same without Janto, which was such a core element to the show.
p.s- much love to JACKHARKNESS for all his wonderful efforts on this blog- you made the waiting bearable :D
I'm not getting why people are so upset about Ianto.
I'm, and I'm sure others as well, are upset because we liked Ianto.
Killing Gwen would have been just as dark, even darker since she's pregnant.
Personally speaking, after what has happened, this is the end of the line for me. RTD has destroyed the three best things in the show, ianto, jack and janto, and seeing as they are the main reason for watching for me, i am done. And before people ask, no, i don't think JB or Jack are coming back to TW, from his comments, i think he has finished as well. I am really pissed off with RTD. He has done what has been obvious from the start, taken out all the talent and best things in the show to make way for what he really wanted which is the Gwen Cooper show.
As for season 4, if Ianto, Jack and Janto don't come back to the show, then i am not watching it at all. I don't see the point. Frankly, RTD has screwed us as fans, the scifi world and the gay community. He didn't listen to the fans at all, he did what he wanted so he could get what he wanted and it has cost him big time in loyal fans stakes. I hope there is no season 4.
I really enjoyed the beginning of CoE and whilst I agree that it was a good piece of drama I still can't help but feel disappointed and flat with the ending. Jack killing his grandson was both horrific and somehow fitting for the plot and character but has left me with very mixed feelings over whether I want to watch any continuation of Torchwood. I want Ianto to be revived but I can't think of any feasible way for that to happen which won't feel overly recycled from Suzie and Owen.
The only consolation from this series is that Gwen's character seemed to be better this time round. She was less flat which was probably helped by having Rhys there constantly and less flirting with Jack.
Providing there is no American bastardisation of the show and Jack comes back then series 4 will probably be good but most likely I won't watch past the first episode.
For me, Torchwood died that night with Ianto Jones. And don't give me that 'fictional character' crap. RTD really screwed this up.
The way the whole group acted together was Torchwood, this includes Tosh's techno babble, Owen's sarcasm, Gwen's reasoning, Ianto's wit (& coffee) and Jack's flirtings.
After they had killed off Owen and Toshiko, a lot of fans felt devastated. Including me. Okay, not that crushed like now, after they disposed of Ianto. But still.
So what is left now? Ianto's dead, Jack's become the monster he always knew he was and Gwen... well, she'd come out of that whole crap rather well. Husband alive, baby on it's way.
You might have to ask:
Is there any place for a new Torchwood team again?
Maybe that's how the producers are going to sell a new season. And maybe, just maybe, the Torchwood Seasons 1, 2 and 3 will considered the classics like the old Doctor Who seasons before Doctor No. 9.
Ask yourself:
Do you really want to see your beloved fandom (how else could you explain the 6 million people watching?) renewed with a new cast and crew? All fresh, sparkly, sexy and new?
I'm just sure that I don't want to see this. I liked Torchwood the way it was. Even with just the three of them. But seeing this week-long horrible show, with hit after hit (for fans) and with no better solution than to make it worse, has just left scars.
And, by the way, is it really that impossible for RTD to give episodes (not just Torchwood, also Doctor Who) a bloody Happy Ending instead of dread?
I guess we'll never find out now.
I have been shocked by the events of day 4 and day 5. But I hope that they will continue Torchwood with a new team headed by Gwen Cooper.
I also hope that Cpt. Jack never comes back to the series. At the end of day 5 I found myself hating Cpt. Jack. He should be buried in concrete forever. He killed his own grandson! For that crime, I cannot forgive him.
I am glad that Ianto never found out what a bastard Jack really is.
Also, I don't know what RTD is going thru. He is putting both the Doctor and Jack in the same dark place. Both realizing that everyone around dies or leaves them, and both are unable to deal with this. For Jack that might be realistic, but for the Doctor? Come on this guy has dealt with 9 regenerations and is an Alien! I think RTD is trying to cope with something personal here. Good that he will be gone from both shows!
Have to say, overall i enjoyed Children of Earth. An improvement on previous series.
Yes, the death of Ianto was a horrific loss to many of us, and felt like a knife in the gut, but thats what great television does - it makes you laugh, it makes you cry. All the way through this series my heart broke for Ianto. The relationship seemed very one sided, Ianto clearly loved more than he was loved. The fact that Jack couldn't even say he loved Ianto as he was dying was particularly upsetting. I feel like the relationship requires some closure... I would be overjoyed if in the Doctor Who Christmas Specials, Jack begged the Doctor to take him back to a point when Ianto was alive, just so he could tell him he loved him, just once, so he knew when he died. But thats never gonna happen.
Anyway, apart from that whole business, i found myself actually liking Gwen in this series. I can't put my finger on exactly what the writers have done to her, but i really warmed to her. Saying that, I don't think she could carry a new series of Torchwood on her own. I will keep an open mind though... if there ever is a fourth series, i'll watch and reserve judgement till then.
I was never follower of Torchwood. Saw some episodes but it never "grabbed" me. But then I saw "CoE" and I instantly became a fan.
Even if I did not really follow the development of the first two seasons, I got really hooked with the drama, shed some tears and labeled "Torchwood" as a "must see" program.
The moral questions/choices left me almost breathless and the "what would you do" question popped up more than once in my mind.
So for "Newbies" like me "CoE" for sure was an experience that makes one longing for more. I just ordered the first season on blue-ray. And I would be so happy, if the serious would continue, now that I discovered and fell in love with it.
An american version? Beware! They instantly would "clean" everything they label as immoral (like the gay relationship)
For me "CoE" was the best show of the year so far. Personally I liked it better than "Dr. Who" and other High credited (also american) TV-Shows. It has to go on, cause I will not be the only one who got hooked this (short) season!
William
Switzerland
I agree on the finale to "Torchwood", it was very good, reminiscent of the 'Star Trek' film where Spock 'dies', "the needs of the many", though sad for Jack and family. I can imagine that the next series of "Torchwood" (assuming there is one) returning with Gwen running the place (with Rhys and an on site creche) and Jack returning from his walkabout to save the day? You could even throw in a new team member as an alien returning with Jack? Perhaps picked-up in his DW Jack's DW appearance?
I don't want to sound mean, but I'm glad Ianto didn't come back to life as it shows that Torchwood isn't as cheesy as Doctor Who.
I didn't like the ending but I'm not going to let 5 bad minutes spoil nearly 5 hours of great TV.
This may be sacrilege - but prior to CofE I'd watched every episode of Torchwood and thought it nothing more than a fairly middling drama. Admittedly any show that has the awful Chris Chibnall as Head Writer and writing the majority of the scripts (if "42" isn't the single worst Doctor Who story, I'm struggling to think what is) is going to be crippled from the start, and it was his departure along with the excellent Peter Capaldi and Paul Copley that persuaded me to watch the new series.
Boy am I glad I did - it's a completely different show that has FINALLY moved out of the shadow of Doctor Who. Bad fanfic? I'm sorry, but bad fanfic doesn't have terrific scenes like Mr Frobisher first negotiating with the 456 in Episode 3. You could feel the fear dripping off of him. Bad fanfic doesn't have a scene like the one where Jack's daughter refuses to let Jack spend time with his grandson because of the "aging" thing. Bad fanfic doesn't have moral dilemmas like Jack sacrificing his own grandson and Mr Frobisher murdering his own family. Or the government sacrificing children to a bunch of intergalactic druggies to save their own skins.
Yes bits of this made me feel VERY uncomfortable, yes Ianto's loss is terrible - not just because his relationship with Jack finally felt real rather than just tacked on for the first time, but because him and Tosh were the only likable characters in the show. Both gone now.
I think there will be a 4th series. Why not? Doctor Who regularly changes its cast and carries on (as does Spooks) and there is no reason why a fresh set of characters alongside Gwen and Jack (of course he can come back!) can't take the show to new places.
It's been a brilliant piece of TV - for the first time I can say I actually found myself enjoying Torchwood. Not just casually, but really investing myself in the programme. And I still have the 3 recent R4 audios to listen to to tide me over until Torchwood returns.
Thanks to all the cast and crew for a brilliant 5 hours of TV.
I love Torchwood so much and I was totally crushed when Ianto died.
As much as I hate to say this I think they should redo the show with new characters. They've lost nearly the entire cast so why not lose them all?
In the episode Fragments you see how Jack lost his whole team as they went into the year 2000. Guess it happens with Torchwood. One of those shows without a constant cast.
But it WOULD be great if Jack came back to see a team of people he didn't know running Torchwood wouldn't it?!
Anyhoo, there won't be another series until like 2011 if JB + Eve were in it, with JB being busy, Eve pregnant and the length of time it takes to put the show together. RTD said series 4 was ready (or something like that) so new cast I think might be good and speed it up, waiting is all we TW fans do these days!
But I won't complain if Jack's back, again. :D
The show is not over people! There's only been 3 (2.5) series!!!
Sorry but I have to disagree with many posters on here. This was excellent drama with fantastic acting and great depth - although very uncomfortable and in some ways a snub to the fans.
I agree that Ianto did not need to die. They already knew that Jack was going to murder his own grandson, and the pain of that would have been enough to make him leave. Having him walk away from Ianto would have been a far more powerful statement that having Ianto killed in a fairly pointless manner. Those fans who are saying that Gwen should have been killed instead are really doing the same thing that RTD did. Neither character needed to die. The plot was powerful enough without that and gained very little from it.
I don't see that TW can return. That "world" is now so bitter and twisted that I can't see how any workable plot can come from it. Too much has been lost and too much has been revealed. How could they look each other in the eye? How could, for example, new mother Gwen work with child-killer Jack?
This ought to be the end for TW. I don't think it needed killing off yet, but anything that follows this will always be in its shadow.
We certainly don't need an American re-make of TW. Whay can't the Americans ever just enjoy tv drama from other countries without needing to fiddle with it?
So many are commenting on Iantos death and I must admit it was gutting - but what a show !
The political undertones were amazing and so chilling ! With regard to Gwen, shes my reason for watching Torchwood and i really cant imagine life without her gracing our screens. Just really hoping that she'll be back.
This was the best torchwood season ever! The show always had potential but oh my god the second season was so uneven I did not expect much but boy was i surprised and impressed.
Fantastic dark drama, shocking twists and the terrible choices to make. It was everything I expected when they said they were going to make an adult dr. who and most importantly, the characters were interacting and talking with one another unlike many episodes last season. I'm just angry that they killed Tosh and Owen with that awful lousy villain last season instead of this masterpiece.
Who wrote this series? It's just lots better than before. They should be responsible for the show from now on.
If there's a four season I want it to be like this. This is simply better than the episodic structure. I can't praise it enough.
It was a fantastic piece of TV drama. The ending - will there be another Torchwood and will it include Captain Jack - is somewhat necessary to give space for a new Doctor. We, the audience, need to accept and love the new, and quite dramatically younger, Doctor without Captain Jack hanging around, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was gone from our screens for quite some time (and not appearing in the last of the four one-off Doctor Who episodes with David Tennant.
What makes Torchwood special is the team, and the team is no more. Captain Jack has been shown to be more industructable than ever - that scene where his dismembered remains come back to life was brilliant. Children of Earth also showed Captain Jack to be more flawed than we had seen him be. The story had reached a point where only the appearance of the Doctor would herald a successful conclusion and then Captain Jack pulls of a moment of flawed genius as he sacrifices his grandson.
In this series, Jack has become more like the Doctor than ever. His tortured state: seeing everyone around him hurt and destroyed, leaving him to run and never die is strikingly reminiscent of the Doctor's character. And so, the two programmes, Doctor Who and Torchwood, lead us ever closer to the the Waters of Mars, the Doctor's end and the arrival of Matt Smith. Perhaps Torchwood - as a programme - is dead, with The Doctor's Daughter, replacing it as a darker, more adult, and team-focused, spin-off?
My opinion, in a nutshell: that was brilliant. Just bloody brilliant.
It was sad, it was dark, it was sometimes downright painful to watch. But then, that was the point, wasn't it? To make us sad, to bring us along for the rollercoaster ride that the characters went through. It didn't leave me feeling happy, not in any sense of the word, it left me feeling downright hollow, and by that measure RTD pulled off a masterpiece.
Okay, so maybe the excessive male nudity in the first couple of episodes got on my nerves (come on, when do the straight guys get fanservice on this show, really?) and the (many) loose ends will bug me for a while to come, but still.
All I can say is this: 2009 will be a year that will live in infamy with we Doctor Who/Torchwood fans. Between the-mixed-quality of some of the specials, the upcoming move to Matt Smith, and the end of almost the entirety of the Torchwood team, it's been a rough year. I guess all we can do now is hope that things end on a high note with The Waters of Mars then, right?
Besides, next year we get a Doctor Who run by Steven Moffat. If nothing else, we'll be getting some more great nightmare fuel, right?
Really enjoyed reading everyones comments, clearly episode 4 and 5 especially have generated much emotion.
For me, well Torchwood is over, regardless of whether another season is commissioned or not. I ejoy SF particularly when there is a rapport with the characters - that was the real strenght and joy of Torchwood. The aliens didn't really matter but the group dynamics and relationships did.
During the Children of Earth the characters and the show have been completely deconstructed. Therefore it can never again be the show I loved. Shame.
Really enjoyed all 5 episodes. OK, so you could drive a coach and horses through some of the plot holes but it gripped me from start to finish. Have to confess to shedding some tears at certain points!
Maybe TW won't continue with this particular set of characters, but I seem to remember other TW 'hubs' being mentioned - wasn't one lost? Who's to say that won't suddenly reappear and give us a whole new set of characters and stories to enjoy.
I'm in two minds about Ianto's death. Taking the series in isolation, the decision to kill off a well loved character, and so unexpectedly, really shook up the show - it was shocking and tragic, giving the finale a mournfull air, rather than a more predictable all-guns-blazing-epic conclusion. Also, seeing gwen and jack buckle under the pain of losing someone else close to them was quite moving.
However, i do think TW's shot themselves in the foot a bit. It seems they're thrown so much at this series that they're forgotten we need solid foundations for the next (which there will be, i'm sure) - we've taken so long to get to this level of quality drama, and that's partly to do with the characters now being well developed and real - so don't destroy them!
I thought Jack returning to his dark, murky character was a bold and brilliant move - i thought last series's jack was becoming too much like doctor who jack - overly resiliant, taking everything in his stride - almost flawless. That Gray thing? 100 years in a coffin, dying over and over again and he still has the motivation to save the world? They pulled him back from the heroic jack this series this year; made him far more human.
The thing that saved the series was the pace, you did not have time to consider the plot holes, as big and as many as they were.
The that has to be remembered about Ianto's death and Jack's grandsons death is the fact that Cap'n Jack is basically immortal, how long has he been around, how many civilisations has he seen come an go and enjoyed the fruit of each. What was so special from his Lazerus type perspective that would this was any different from a previous love.
I'm not sure about Frobisher's take in the last scene in the PM's office, no normal man in that cirumstance would have reacted that way. it is no more likely, given that there was nothing to lose and there was no one else in the office and he had no obvious weapon, he could have killed the PM, a letter opener throgh the eye, or attemping to break his neck would have been a more obvious result to the threat placed in front of him because the PM needed his active co-operaion to make the scenario work, without him the PR thing would have been a waste of time, and his children might have been saved.
But, having said all the above, I quite enjoyed the fast pace and shouting at the TV about obvious plot holes.....
I´m from Portugal and only a year ago I discovered Torchwood's universe. I'm completly under a spell. I've pre-ordered the CoE dvd at play.com and after a weeks it's finnaly coming.
I know probably you won't believe me but, I have been bitting my nails to endure the stress of all spoilers around lol (this is not a critic). But at the end of the last season, the team lost two elements - Owen was my favourite because he was a scared little boy, trying to play it tough - and it was hard to watch that
I haven't seen any episode or spoilers because i want to see all fresh and new.
In my country the series was broadcasted on SIC RADICAL network, wich shows very alternative kind of programmes, but they only showed the first series so far. i was so into it that i bought the other one... and now I'm waiting for the third series.
regarding the fact torchwood is dead??? definitly not because it's a cult now and even if it doesen't come into the air for another year, thrn we'll have something to look forward and i know it's gonna be AMAZING!!!
Well off to work now and forgive my english or any mistakes I might have done.
Love the site...bye
OK... Hearing a lot of people complain that it's no longer the show they fell in love with with. It's an understandable complaint but I feel that it's an inevitable complaint for any show that runs for longer than a couple of seasons. I'd rather they changed things up, even if it results in more than a few unwelcome losses from the cast, if it means that they can revitalise the show. I have no doubt that Torchwood will return, the ratings for CoE will see to that.
I wonder if anyone can answer a question for me... I heard that the actors that play Martha and Mickey were unavailable for filming which is why they don't appear in CoE but I don't remember an explanation in the story for their abscence. It was pretty well set-up in Doctor Who for these characters to appear in Torchwood so I'm wondering if I missed a line of dialogue that explained their abscence. If it wasn't explained then presumably Gwen could contact them and we would have our basis for Torchwood's team for Season 4?
Hey Richard,
To answer your question about Martha and Mickey, Mickey basically wasn't mentioned and we just have to assume that Gwen might not have known about him (as he wasn't shown to the Torchwood team in any of the video conference things during Stolen Earth)or wasn't contactable. As for Martha, Jack tried contacting her in the first ep of CoE, but she was on 'holiday' and couldn't be contacted. Why she didn't try to contact Jack when all the children of the earth were affected no one knows. Hope that answers your question :)
I have a feeling the world in which TW exists will be reset, just like it was after series 1. Which would be very irritating and lessen COE's impact.
And in response to having Jack walk away from Ianto - that could have been such a great scene! Also, it opens up new possibilities for the character - Ianto would be so heartbroken and bitter - we could have seen a darker side to him next series. Plus, I always wanted to see what he's like taking a more dominant role in a (different) relationship - i reckon he'd be quite controlling in his own way.
I posted this in a couple of other places already:
Having Jack leave is a setup for the David Tennant send off. More and more I think about it; more and more its seemingly like a useful plot device.
I don't get why people complain why they think this protrays the good Captain in a bad light. Jack made choices and dealt with the consequences. If there was another way to have beaten the 456; he would have found it. In the end; it was the only way and the only other alternative would have been far worse; both for Stephen and the human race. There is a line from Dumbledore in the deathly Hallows which goes something like: "some times there are times when meaningful death is better than a useless life."
Getting back to RTD: the open secret about the return of Rose for the send off means that the gateway to Pete's world will open up again.
Could something like what happened to Jackie and Pete happen to Jack and Ianto? RTD has a noticable romantic side to his writing.
Even if there is no device for bringing Ianto back; it comes back to one fundamental point that was made by RTD when Torchwood was launched: in torchwood's line of work; people die. He wanted to have some more of the realism that is not possible for Dr Who given its target audience.
I still miss Tosh and I will continue to miss Ianto but that is life. People die; plain and simple
As Spock said "We cannot sacrifice the one for the good of the many" not an exact quote but you get the drift.For me the action of Captain jack Harkness and the earthlings was indeed the end of the world "as we know it" certainly the end of civilization. It waa truly the thin edge of the wedge and the question beg "What will we sacrifice next to save ourselves" our humanity itself. great episodes but deeply troubling. Although well written I feel as though writers could have come up with a better way to finish off a series, certainly one that didn't sacrifice our humanity.
jacks gonna come back to earth and build a new hub were the origanal hub was and gwen and jack are going to rectuit new members
I could hardly stay awake through series three. I don't understand how you could object to Jack's change of character but still think this was a good piece of drama.
Ianto's death and Jack's going mercenary weren't the fundamental problem with this series. I just didn't care that Ianto died or that Jack killed his grandson because I was bored to tears by the plot. The problem is that it wasn't Torchwood! It wasn't slick, or sexy, or fun, or scary.
It was slow, dull, and moralizing. Sure, lots of characters were put into totally contrived moral dilemmas where they behaved like monsters - but somehow even that managed to come across as preachy. Not moral complexity - just stupid.
And for those who keep referring to Spock: let's all remember, Spock sacrificed HIMSELF.
CoE was fantasic! Hated the ending, but have to say, that I won't get too upset just now. I have to believe that Jack and Gwen will be back, with the last episodes of DW with David Tennant paving the way for that. And as for Ianto - he can't stay dead! Gutted that Owen and Tosh are gone, but the show cannot possibly continue without Jack, Gwen and Ianto. Fans of the show are in love with the characters and relational dynamics between them, changing the characters would kill Torchwood! Can't wait for Series 4!!
I agree with Becca's comments. Ianto and other unnecesary, shocking deaths aside, I don't think CoE is anywhere as good as people are making out to be.
Too many plotholes, too much stupidity on the part of the plot devices- sorry, I mean characters, to get the story to move alone at all.
I won't even get into how completely derivative the story was, that would take pages and pages.
I'm sure people will get over the cheap shocks some day and see all what is wrong with CoE.
As a Torchwood fan, I never felt CoE was Torchwood, so I consider it over with Exit Wounds, it was good while it lasted.
A few quick notes...I am from across the Pond in America and I'll tell you if the US gets their own TW I WILL NOT WATCH IT...I learned my lesson when I watched the last episode of the US "Life on Mars"
As far as CoE, I felt it was a good series. We got more depth with Jack and ianto's life then we ever had before....
Plot holes were all over the place but again JB and the whole cast eased me through it and made me care.
I would like a 4th series. I think that Gwen will have the hub with a new cast and Jack will return when RTD feels his Character is ready.
You brits have to help us by keeping good SciFi on like DW or TW. Cause outside of BSG we yanks can't make scifi worth crap in the last decade.
Wow. Just.. Wow.
Lots of flip offs to RTD on here... I'll go the other way with some salutes:
RTD: Way to grow up the franchises!
RTD: Thank you for showing homosexuals as people, not characters. You've played it "safe" with humor too often in the past.
RTD: Thanks for relearning how to be 'epic'. You brushed off the cheese of your DW #4.
RTD: You didn't have to kill Ianto, but you left him to rest where he was meant to lie.
Oh yeah.. And...
BBC: Take the hint from RTD. You don't have to kill the show, but make sure its left to rest where it is meant to lie.
ive just watched the torchwood de-classified section of the children of earth dvd.RTD gives some pretty posotive hints that that this isnt the end of torchwood.god,please god let it be true!!.ive only been able to watch day's 1,2 and 3.the last two day's leave me in a state of utter depression!!!
nobody should be surprised about Jacks actions regarding giving up a child to save the world as he has done it before in Season 1,Episode 5 Small Worlds. Although I think the way in which this senario was wrtiien in COE was a better story line. I too was sad to se ianto killed of seing how he and Jacks GAY relationship was developinh, athough both it seems aer bi-sexual anyway with both having had relationship with women in the show. Jack sexuallyity had always been rather ambiguous, so you never really knew which way he wwould swing.It was a bit of a shock too see such a dark stroyline in a TV series as usually something happens to amke eveything alrigh again, in a way it was satisfying to see that not happen. I almost expecting The Doctor come riding in on a white chargr to save the day, ses almost odd he didnt seeng how its his responsibilty to look after panet earth, the Tardis always delivering him there whenever there was a dire crisis, It was will interstiing to see if Jack does surface int eh new Doctor Who series.
(with spellng and grammer corrections, should check in future)
nobody should be surprised about Jacks actions regarding giving up a child to save the world as he has done it before in Season 1,Episode 5 Small Worlds. Although I think the way in which this senario was wrtiien in COE was a better story line. I too was sad to see Ianto killed of seeing how he and Jacks 'GAY' relationship was developing, athough both it seems are bi-sexual anyway with both having had relationships with women in the show. Jack sexuality had always been rather ambiguous, so you never really knew which way he would swing.It was a bit of a shock too see such a dark storyline in a TV series as usually something happens to make eveything alright again, in a way it was satisfying to see that did not happen. I almost expected The Doctor come riding in on a white chargr to save the day, seems almost odd he didnt seeng how its his responsibilty to look after planet earth, the Tardis always delivering him there whenever (whenever) there was a dire crisis, It was will interstiing to see if Jack does surface in the new Doctor Who series.
I have to wonder what the writers were thinking when they broke the story for CoE. It's not drama. It's melodrama. With plot holes large enough to drive a fleet of lorries through (I'd go on about those, but this would turn into a dissertation). Personally, I'm hoping that the entire series gets retconned into non-existence because I agree with others who have said that CoE is bad fanfic. Like ff.net bad fanfic. I thought it started out strong, but things started to fall apart for me in part three with far too much exposition, and then they lost me completely due to too much redonc in part four. I didn't even watch part five (though I've heard what happens and it doesn't make me want to change my mind about watching).
Though it was only the tip of the iceberg of my disappointment, my biggest problem was Ianto being killed off. I thought that was an absurd choice and a huge mistake on the part of the writers (it just cemented in my mind how much they've jumped the shark with the CoE storyline). I think Ianto as a character has always been short-changed and marginalized (with the exception of "Cyberwoman" and maybe "Out of the Rain") and the Jack/Ianto relationship with him. Do they really expect us to believe that *two years* into their relationship they are still having non-discussions about whether or not they're a "couple"? Because I sure don't buy it. It felt forced and like the writers were just coming up with something for them to be awkward over... as filler or something equally patronizing. I appreciated that we finally got to find out more about Ianto's life with the scenes with his sister, but overall, I still feel it was too little, too late, since they just Tasha Yar'd him anyway five minutes later. Fail, RTD, major fail.
Good sci-fi, but they are about to
lose me with the whole pro-homo agenda. I have had enough of watching 2 men burn for each other.
I just watched CoE day 5 and I also have mixed feelings about it. The story was great and it was done really well, but I'm not sure about the ending. If this is the end of the show then I think the ending was brilliant, but if not then they really screwed up. Also as far as us Yanks getting a hold of it (yes, I live in Texas) well if we do, that's what the off button on my TV is for. We did good with The Office so mabey there's hope. But I did see the DR. Who and the RED DWARF that we tried, so probably not. Oh well. In closing I want to that you Brits for giving me a reason to turn my TV on. Thank God for BBC America.
A Torchwood without Jack isn't worth watching. I can't imagine watching something with a team led by Gwen would be anything other than annoying. The comment way up there that said Gwen suffered the most made me laugh, though. I don't see how anyone could think that, unless they think that surviving without so much as a scratch and getting to go home to your new little house with your living, unharmed husband and have babies is worse than being dead or consumed by guilt and grief.
I thought Children of Earth was utterly brilliant, but I can't say I enjoyed it by the end. It left me feeling kind of sick, for various reasons. Lots of people are saying that it's realistic, that Torchwood is a deadly job and people are going to die. I don't disagree with that. However, Torchwood is also a tv show and there comes a point when the line between "Ooh, the characters are in mortal peril" and "The characters are cannon fodder to be used whenever the producers want extra drama" is crossed. Three of five characters killed in six episodes? Crosses that line. There comes a point when a viewer becomes too wary to let themselves care about the characters. Why would I let myself become emotionally invested in characters Russell T Davies creates? This is what happens to them. And if I can't care about the characters, there's no point in watching the shows.
If Jack comes back I'll give a potential fourth season a try, out of respect for Jack and John Barrowman. Otherwise...new cast, American version, whatever....not a chance.
What to say about 5 hrs of lame BBC drama,come on now ,how unrealistic was that.....for example
The hero does nothing!
they recorded all of those meetings using the contact lenses and then poof ,decide not to use it,what a waste of plot
then the civil servant kills his daughters and himself ,lame...lame
then Jacks daughter will sacrifice millions to save one boy...lame
Also how did the government know that we didnt stand a chance against this one alian.....my faith in BBC shows took a drastic turn for the worse,good production value but suspend all thoughts of realistic plots
Why are so many people pissed about the sexual ambiguity. This is the 21st century for gods sake, get over it. I'm sure you didn't mind the episode with Tosh muggin down on another woman, or the episode where Gwen was tongue dancing with the girl in the cell. I'm a straight man, and seeing guys kiss doesn't make me that uncomfortable. It's part of Jacks character and always has been since his first appearance in Dr Who. I think the reason they made Jacks and Lantos relationship so much closer was to add to the drama when he died and to show Jacks emotional side. It balanced out his dark side when he killed his grandson. It made Jack a more rounded character and gave him more depth. Also I want to correct one thing in my last post. I re-watched the us DR Who movie and it was actually good. Of course it was made by the us and the BBC.
Please let's hope the US don't get their hand on Torchwood because they will ruin everything TW means with the hollywood's spetacularity! Let's hope
I've seen COE and i didn't feel Ianto's death like i did with Owen simply because i think the late doctor brought more to the team (fun, sarcasm and obviously sex). Burn Gorman has been one of my favourite actors for years. But i felt like the team is vanishing with his death and that's why Jack became so twisted. But i believe Tw will be back - THE UK VERSION IF YOU PLEASE
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